Here’s an interview that I did with Karl Bastian. Across North America, Karl is known as the “The Kidologist” due to his extensive workshop speaking and kidology.org web site.
Karl took the Dramatic Leadership Assessment Test and scored highly in several styles, including Drama Coach. A veteran children’s minister, Karl has learned to broaden the repertoire of his leadership style.
In fact, Karl attributes his effectiveness as Drama Coach to his desire to be a life long learner. At Karl’s last pastorate, he rarely scheduled himself as a presenter at his own teacher training meetings.
“You know the verse about a prophet in his own country? Instead of presenting, I bring in outside experts to my teacher training meetings. Or I have one of my seasoned teachers present. They have so much wisdom.”
Karl sat with his volunteers, took notes, and asked questions. “My volunteers need to see me modeling being a learner. I can steer the conversation by asking questions, but it’s important that they see me as a peer—learning.”
Karl focused the majority of his teaching ministry his Leadership Team. The Leadership Team consisted of the heads of each department in his children’s ministry. Leadership Team meets each month. Karl opens each month with a simulating question such as “If God gave you $1,000 to use in the children’s ministry, what would you spend it on?”
Karl gave his team homework assignments such as reading a leadership book together and discussing portions of it each month. He challenged his team to interact with the material and make personal applications.
According to Karl, creating a leadership team that values learning requires personal humility. “I need to convince my team that I’m a peer. That means that my ideas can die on the table, just like theirs can die. I need to create an environment where people feel free to criticize me.”
Once Karl showed his teach a clip from the movie “First Night”, where King Arthur established the Order of the Round Table. “Our meetings need to be just like that. There’s no head of the table.”
These meetings are valuable, but not Karl’s preferred venue to exercise his teaching gift.
“My favorite way to teach is one-on-one. It took me awhile to learn that. It’s easy to be happy in the spotlight. At my first ministry after Bible School, I launched the church’s first kid’s club and a children’s church. Attendance tripled. However, I had to leave under difficult circumstances regarding the Senior Pastor.
Ten years later, everything I put in place crumbled. Members look back at the those days and refer to me as “The Legend.” I look at all those years as a failure. All of the long hours and all-nighters that I spent to make that ministry sizzle—nothing remained.
“I ran the ministry instead of building it. “
Today Karl sees one of his primary roles as being a coach for his leaders.
“I coach them how to solve their own problems. The answers to most problems are obvious to the paid professional. But I need to coach them through the “big crisis,” then I need to let them do it. I’m not the paid fireman. I need to allow my leaders to lead.”
Karl uses his life-on-life coaching moments to give his leaders a vision that what they are doing is significant. “I want them to see a higher purpose for what they are doing.”
Karl’s method of leading through his leaders and building them up has paid off. Twice, when Karl moved on from a particular church, his teams were developed to the point where they were able to function without a paid child’s minister. The churches used that money to hire a staff person in a different department.
Karl sees his kidology.org web site as a vehicle as an extension of his Drama Coach style. “It’s a place where children’s workers can swap ideas with each other and network. What breaks my heart is that there are great teachers out there that no one knows about. They teach a great object lesson once in front of fifty people and then it’s lost.
“I want to create a place where we can learn from each other and recycle our best ideas.”
The desire to be a life long learner drives Karl. “When I observe children’s ministry professionals who are attached to outdated methods I wonder if people will look at me someday and view me as dated. I need to constantly invent and reinvent myself so I’m always fresh.”
Karl’s Tips for Leading by Teaching
• My dad had this framed in his office: “I do, you watch. I do, you help. You do, I help. You do, I watch.” That’s a good summary of the coaching process.
• If you want to be a teacher, you must be a student.
• People have to see you as a learner.
• Ask questions first. Period.
• Be a peer and your volunteers’ subordinate. “First, I fill my volunteers up with vision. Then I tell them, ‘I work for you.’”
• Be a coach
• Make failure O.K.
Blog Tour:
Today the blog tour moves to Ohio, with Wayne Stocks. Wayne is a veteran children’s pastor and an avid blogger who works at connecting children’s ministry leaders together all over the country. Swing by his website to read his review of Lead the Way God Made You and for a chance to win a copy of the book.